A former co-ordinator, Defence Media Information, Maj. Gen. John Enenche (retd.), says supporting the two major parties, the Peoples’ Democratic Party (PDP) and the All Progressives Congress (APC), is like jumping from a frying pan to fire. He fielded questions at the Political Paradigm, a one-on-one Channels Television programme. David Lawani monitored it

How did you contribute to the growth of the Nigerian Army?

If there is anything that I will thank God for, it is the privilege of passing through military service because I was grilled and moulded from nothing to something. From the raw material to somebody, humbling as a good product. And I have experienced a lot, having to superintend over various characters. Though trained in the military, you still see characters in the military and what I went through by way of disengagement from challenges and all. They all added to what I am today. So, it is a very interesting experience for me that I cannot buy or get anywhere.

‘N36.6bn FG’s fund for tradermoni, wastage’

 

Probably after a long while, you returned to posting something on Twitter, how has the experience been?
I think I have been on Twitter since I was a director of defence information and I had one year of posting to an army war college in Nigeria where I was the commandant. I have been there since 2012. Then I was having just about 70 followers but when you noticed this issue of partisan interest, and presidential campaign council and all that, I became active. And that was where the followers grew.

Your tweet about a new rebirth of Nigeria, what does that mean?
For me, it was the foundation. After I got the conviction about going into it, I now tweeted to create awareness and to encourage people. And do you know what I got? It was just only one response and others who didn’t respond would be thinking what this man is up to? A lot of people were thinking as I came out and decided to go into full-time ministry and was preaching the gospel as it were, yet after I got the conviction that you need to add value. Payback what God has done through you, through the military, I now tweeted to prepare the ground for what I am doing now.

What exactly did you see in the rebirth in 2023?

I saw a new Nigeria through the movement that is on now. The signal comprises various organs.

What is the level of awareness of the electorate?

Change in attitude; change in handling government issues and change in every ramification. Why? Because the leadership is going to determine it. I see a new Nigeria coming up.

Do you believe you have the positive attention of Nigerians, considering the role you played during the EndSARS?

Yes, you know there are times people will be happy. It gives you attention. It is not every negative. It gives you out and that was my mission apart from briefing the nation every Thursday about the operations of the ground forces, it brought me out and that is what I can see.

How will you react to the move to drop you from the Labour Party presidential campaign council?

I will tell you that my reaction to it is that of trust. Why? We are talking about a new Nigeria. We are talking about rebirth, whereby you listen to the people. Who are the people that complained? The people that complained from Twitter were not up to 1,500 people. So, if you look at the whole population of the movement that is going to form the Labour Party and you see the people around, you will know that we are going to have a listening president or authority, and that is one of their complaints. I now discovered that there was a need for more strategic communication than ever. So, I am happy once that is done, the incoming government will have a charter that labour is going to operate. To uphold the charter of the Nigeria Labour Congress, every person will matter.

What is the role of the campaigning council in an organisation like that?

It is just like one per cent of what you are supposed to achieve and I have a lot. So, I will now channel my energy to all the other things that I have packaged.

Won’t that affect you?

Rather it will encourage me more because I have discovered two things: this is a group of people that nobody must take for granted, and the party must not take them for granted. I mean the people that agitated. If I show you the responses, they have increased to about 4000 plus.

That complaint was not just social media. What did you see?

It is not social media alone. If you put everything together, would I call it an issue? It is now like between two groups, and I assess myself, assess what I did, and it encourages me to look, it is not all about that. What has been going on in this country, I think EndSARS was just one that came up among the youth. Security, poverty, and hunger; a whole lot of things and I didn’t come because of EndSARS. I came in first and foremost, for the country; what I can contribute for the country to be secure for all human activities that we need to make this country grow, and to fulfil all that God has promised us. People cannot go to farms because of insecurity. Look at the bad roads, look at the insurgency still lingering. In the strategic contract which I put out under the former Chief of Army Staff, only one case was implemented. I mean decimation, domination, and occupation, only one was done. All this is not the fault of the Armed Forces. They are there ready, should I now sit back? No.

Will you say there was a strategy that the military wanted to implement that didn’t see the light of day?

Yes. It was supposed to be 1 to 3: “Decimation, domination, and occupation.” They (insurgents) were decimated. For occupation, you will need a lot of resources from the armed forces. You will need a particular level of readiness, which is what they are doing gradually now. There were no available resources at the time we left. If you have the mind, will you sit back? We have very good Armed Forces, crack service chiefs and followers, right from the Chief of Defence Staff. By privilege, I am in a bond with them, and I know these people that are there now. They are people that will deliver once you give them what is necessary.

What they need now is a Commander-in-Chief, I guess?

Look, it is not about the Commander-in-chief. You see how the country has been going. There is a demand for national courses. At one time I went for a budget presentation, and they told us that the resources were not there. What we were even asking for was small. And we have seen occasions where the National Assembly and other people will press that they must increase the budget for the military. Fund them more, but all are subject to what is available. The point I am making is that we have a ready force and if you give them what is required, they will deliver.

For the past eight years, over N9trn have been made available for the military. Don’t you think that is enough because some people believe that some of the money just found its way into the wrong pockets?

The ones I can say that were directly channelled to the military were not enough because, at the time, it was government-to-government procurement. We were no longer using contractors including middlemen and all that and the service chiefs put their feet on the ground that whatever they wanted locally should be procured. The only time they had issues was during the Covid-19 when a lot of delays came in. Things that were supposed to have been bought were not gotten but later they came in. But you see, the present war operation is very expensive. That is why if it can be avoided, it is better avoided.

You said the shooting at the Lekki toll gate was photo shopped. Understandably, you made that statement when you were still in service. Now that you are out of service, does that position still stand?

People are out there whether on social media or whatever and it is difficult to convince anybody. For them particularly, and this information is based on what you have and your analysis, the way you will analyse it is different from the way you will do it. What I want to say is that the press statement should suffice because of the way it was. For you to explain to anybody, more effort is to be put in. I will recommend to the labour authorities for them to revisit it if possible. Things must be brought out. Those cameras, the CCTV and all. They can see it. The issue was that they started it as a massacre. What is a massacre? Killing plenty of people. How I wish they would give the reports to the panel. I am out of service now, but I was made to understand that there was footage.

Does it mean you didn’t know that there was footage?

I didn’t know. At a time, they say they damaged everything and all that. It was in the process that the commission of inquiry was on. Before the report came out, I had left the service. What I am saying is that let everybody calm down. If you don’t handle an issue like this decisively and conclusively, it will continue to linger. I feel the Labour Party will say General Enenche dropped because of the complaint. It is an issue that they take seriously. I will not want to interfere or think for them now.

Peter Obi is a beneficiary of the EndSARS, what will you say to them now that they are routing for him by all means?

Was Peter Obi part of EndSARS?

No, I said he is a beneficiary. If you look at the crop of people following him now, they are the same people in the EndSARS. Would you say he is not a beneficiary?

I don’t want to hold that position. EndSARS is a national issue. It is not a personal thing. What is EndSARS? End police brutality. Have you experienced police brutality, your relations, or friends? To start personalising or pinning it on somebody, I don’t want to accept that.

‘N36.6bn FG’s fund for tradermoni, wastage’

 

How did it start?
Police brutality must stop. And they brought out about eight points and, it was stopped. All of these will be addressed. So, if those people did not have anything of impact, they would not ask. I will never support pinning it on somebody because it was a national issue. Except there were some things that you and I might not know. Unless there was a remote reason for it. That is why I said the majority of these people would be 40 years maximum. And the conveners might not tell you what they had in mind. That is what we will need to handle with a lot of care. I don’t want to rush into it that you did this or that. We have passed that level. In all fairness to Peter Obi or anybody, I don’t want to pin it on anybody. I believe whether you are EndSARS or Muslim, or Christian, hunger won’t spare you. The movement of the Labour Party has politicians. The core Nigerian Labour Congress is all over the country. The Trade Union Congress is there. You have lots of people with knowledge and the press coming in. So, it is not a party for now. It is a movement. I believe it will become a party when we have won.

You have joined the Obi movement, and everybody wants to point to you now. The demands of the EndSARS at the time were genuine. Do you have a contrary view?
SARS was harassing people. They were not doing their work and everybody saw it. It was genuine but it was hijacked and unfortunately, they were not wearing tags. Maybe they would have approached the police differently. And the crowd was massive. What is our demography to be able to classify them? What is the population of Nigeria? They were youthful. The genuine people were those who said to end police brutality. Removing SARS from our system was genuine. It was the inclusion of other people that caused the problem.

Are you into politics beyond just changing the polity?
When I will become a politician will be properly defined after the election. Politics is not a profession per se. A politician doesn’t earn a salary as I was told. I have investigated and interrogated that. But from what I have seen here, I am somebody in the movement to ensure the change to a new era of thinking; of being democratically led and followed in this country. And to have a good foundation like the Bible said if the foundation is faulty, what can the righteous do? So, it is my passion that when Peter Obi comes with his team, they will lay a good foundation in the areas that I can bring my experience to bear. So, it is after that I can say yes, we have done the needful. Of course, I will have to participate in the activities to help them come so that we can now call it any name you want but I am in the movement.

Are you a member of the Labour Party?
I will not answer directly. Why? Because my second objective is to ensure that we have an ideological party. A party that says they’ll do something, and they will do it. It must be corrupt-free. I want to be a builder of that foundation. I don’t want to be committed and that is why you see the other day; I was told they still need to rearrange the presidential campaign committee. It is because some people are just seeing that I just came in and I am being drafted into the PCC. If that is the situation, there is nothing too much to do. Even if they will have to send some of us to register in our local government council, there is no big deal about it.

People wondered if you were not a member of the party, and you made the PCC. How do you see it?
I just told you. I didn’t say I am not a member. Don’t put words in my mouth.

Are you a member of the Labour Party or not?
Don’t put words in my mouth. I will give you that response in our next meeting.

Were you consulted before your name was included in that list?
Yes, I was consulted. There was this broadcast I made on a piece of open advice to Nigerians. Podcast. Somebody heard it. The heavy ‘Obi-dient’. One of them called me and said we saw this and that. Are you available? Can you be available? I chatted with him about my passion. And for why I am supporting the ‘Obi-dient’ movement, particularly Obi. He said will you be available, and I said yes sir. Because he is my senior in the military. You will be available for the campaign, and I said yes sir. That was how my name came in.

Why have you decided to support Obi and Datti?
Will I say it is a coincidence based on my experience and knowledge about those principles? I first met Peter Obi in 2006, about 17 years ago. I was the commanding officer of the Nigerian Army in Onitsha. When he came in as a governor of Anambra State to take over from Dr Chris Ngige, as it were, the security situation in the state was like criminals and agitators were doing whatever they liked and he came, humbling and visited the barracks. That was how we started and that was how I knew him. He made the presentation, and we approved operation MENSA for him. That is the oldest internal security in the army for now. At the time he came, the problem was so serious. Police were prevented from doing their work. I can tell you within two weeks when Operation MENSA was restored, and we were permitted to conduct the operation to ensure internal security, all that we needed was provided. There was this incident that happened in Onitsha. At that time, our level of equipment, particularly logistics, was low, and we needed to go to town. I called my headquarters, the defence headquarters had to do one or two things before they even arrived. It was noon the following day, and the deed was done; the prisoners had broken out, and it pained him. He asked what do you want? We gave him our requirements. Within a couple of days, he provided about 12 Hilux vehicles and the operation started. He released everything. He was in direct command of everything that we needed. Where there was a need for non-kinetic operation, they were all bought. Like a miracle, within a month, we battled the criminals. And other commanders that came after followed suit.

 

How about the vice-presidential candidate?

There are three of my children at Baze University. About five years ago, I followed how he came about it. I didn’t know he went through all that he did. He presented himself as somebody that was liberal. I didn’t like to introduce myself as a Christian and all that. My daughter told me they established a Christian fellowship for them. He insisted on him as the vice-presidential candidate. So, when his name came up, I said this is the kind of person we need. And, of course, there were issues with other people. This man is somebody liberal. He doesn’t discriminate. It is the same thing with Peter Obi. When there was this problem in Onitsha. Everybody rushed to the barrack. I was the unit response commander-in-charge of the disaster. When they came in, he visited them physically. There was no discrimination among tribes. He brought state emergency management agencies in addition to what the federal government had. He was in touch 24/7. Putting other conditions together, competence, capability, and above all, this corruption thing, whether convicted or not. That was what he brought to bear. It is not something today. Occasionally, we exchange calls and he will say how are you doing commander? Based on his personal quality, in the military, there is something we hold in high esteem, appraisals, we call them confidential reports. The first one, if my memory will not fail me, is integrity. Integrity in the military is milk. Once it pours away, it is gone. You cannot gather it and I saw that in him, and I made up my mind to say I will ensure that these people become leaders that will have commensurate followership. I saw the ‘Obi-dient’ movement that it is not people that have money. People are touched and I am touched. So, I had to join them.

‘N36.6bn FG’s fund for tradermoni, wastage’

 

Would you say, under him, insecurity will become a thing of the past?

If what we did in Anambra State then and it is what the police confirm, yes. He will be in command and control. He will be available and passionate 24/7. I won’t be surprised if he says he will take charge of the defence ministry. He was like the Commissioner for Defence in Anambra State.

 

You have served under the APC and PDP during your active years, and you don’t think both are good enough?

Interestingly I have good friends in both parties. I have not seen where either of them, though from my analysis, they are two containers with the same content. Two different containers, but have the same content. It is just to move from this one to the other. They are the same. Now, having said that, what I have seen is not encouraging for me. That is the truth of the matter. I cannot go against my conscience. They may say it is beyond their control. But I don’t know how, but look at it, I thought I would retire and go to the village. In the village I have a two-bedroom flat; I cannot go there again because of insecurity. Close to the house at the junction, there was a kidnapping. Killings that they will attribute to whom they don’t know. At a time, they will say farmers-herders clash. All manners of things. Shortly before I left, there was no week that there wouldn’t be a kidnap. I lost a cousin, who was kidnapped. The man just disappeared in 2018. I was opportune to be a research fellow. I was opportune to teach them the language they understood. I see reports, I have participated in general meetings and symposia, seminars and all the recommendations that came out were about bad leadership on these two parties. I would not have known who to vote for if Peter Obi didn’t come. I would have been like that. That is the truth of the matter. Of course, it is not the individual but a group. I don’t think we have political parties as it were. We have a group of people, who put themselves together fighting and doing all manner of things. In the recent convention, you see them in court that money was used. Is that a party one should join? The answer is no. It is like a business.

What is your advice for Obi on security if he becomes president?

I would have come like an ordinary person. I am not looking for anything. Do you think I will come looking for a job?

Someone said the day the military decides to disobey unlawful orders, this country will be better. Do you agree with the statement?

I would not want to say that the military that I served took an unpopular order. They didn’t. In all fairness, as I am talking to you, I know some people may not be comfortable, but I will mention that God is here with us. People may misconstrue the feelings for you to ensure that the country is one or together. No military man trained in the NDA will take any unpopular order. No military officer will take any unpopular order from any politician.

Four months to the general elections, what is your impression about the whole campaign?

My concern is insecurity. It will somehow affect the election, but my consolation is that the security agencies are equal to the task. There may be shortfalls here and there. But overall, I know we will come out stronger. That is my only concern. Otherwise, if you look at the development in INEC, it is quite encouraging that the ballot box will not be snatched again and that may even reduce the efforts of security agencies. There won’t be a ballot box to snatch again. Voting will have to be captured and recorded. The concern is people being prevented from going to vote. That is just the concern. But I believe strongly that once the deployment is done properly and vigilance is maintained, within maybe 24- or 12-hour duration, from 6 to 6. Once deployment is done properly, that will be overcome.

But in this era of voting buying and inducement, do you think that will work without money?

Yes, it will work. I will advise those who have the money not to use it again because they will collect the money and will not vote for you. The money they are giving you is your own money. Have you asked them how they came about this money? They cannot tell you how. Somewhere, one of the principals of Labour Party told them, collect the money, it is your money they are bringing back to you. Money that they cannot explain how they got it. They used to say that they swear with the money. The Bible says that curse costless shall not stand. There is no curse on that money. The assumption now is that it was the money they collected they are bringing back for them. Collect the money and I can assure you nothing will happen.

Beyond supporting Obi and Datti, how confident are you that it is that direction the votes will go?

Well, I am confident based on the fact the obedient movement is not a labour party movement. The ‘Obi-dient’ movement is gaining ground. And it is in the direction of Peter Obi and Datti Baba Ahmed. And that is why we have this sensitisation. We do not think of a party or structure. Human beings are now structures. And a lot of people are realising that. That is where operation local media is coming in. The real LP will come up after Obi has won. Then we will come together. The ‘Obi-dients’, the various movements- the TUC, NLC, and all the people that say enough is enough, former PDP, APC, and other patriotic Nigerians will come together and say this is the time to start building a new Nigeria.