The Federal Commissioner, representing the South-South region in the Police Service Commission (PSC), Austin Braimah, thinks that in the interest of fairness and equity, the presidential ticket of the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) should be zoned to the South-East region to balance the equation. In this interview with DAVID LAWANI, he also talks about the recently amended Electoral Act, among other issues

Your party, the APC seems to be involved in crisis following the congresses. What is the way out considering the convention that is approaching?
As an appointee of the Federal Government, I am no longer a party man. I was an APC member before I was appointed. But with my appointment, I can no longer participate in politics. I am a retired police officer and I must protect every member of the party in the eye of the law.

If I am involved in politics I will be unable to dispense my duty in the police force and politics. It could be viewed as anti-party by the political party that I belong to. I have reneged my participation in politics until my tenure is over. I am a sympathiser of APC and I cannot pretend not to be. From the beginning, I love the party and participated in its activities from the beginning. No one can say as an observer that APC loves the way it has found itself.

PDP was the ruling party at the time. You are going to find different interests at various levels playing out as it has always been done in this country. It will begin to get higher and higher as we move towards 2023. Nigerians don’t always think of the system. We think of ourselves. Who we are. That is why we blame every leadership at every minute. Every Nigerian is selfish.

We will rather survive the systems to strengthen ourselves. It is a popular thing, I will not blame the party members or anybody. We all are guilty of it. The unfortunate thing is that if APC made the mistake the PDP made, which appears to be the way they are moving now, they may still hand over the presidency to the PDP on a platter of gold with the way they are going now.

They are already moving in that direction. I have been warning politicians, not just the APC that we should play by the rules and not just for anything. We should put God first. They may just be in the reserve. What happened is that President Buhari didn’t win the election, it was PDP that lost the election and somebody has to pick it up. So, by now let’s say the south should take the ticket when it did two years, which the constitution allows, then you now say you want to take another four years to make 10 years.

You should not expect that anybody who believes in justice either in PDP or APC should just sit by. So, it was PDP that removed him (former President Jonathan). That is why President Buhari won the election because PDP lost it. So, somebody has to win.

All I see is that APC is preparing to lose the election, if they lose, it doesn’t matter who they pick as the candidate. Even, if they pick me I will win the election. I want to warn APC or the politicians to play the game by the rules and be honest.

Do you believe in a rotational presidency?
The rotational presidency was anchored on the principle of justice. Constitutional democracy means the government of the people, for the people, and by the people and, it means majority rule.

So, the majority will always rule. The northern part of this country has the largest votes considering its population. If we are to go by votes, they will continue to be the president of this country, but that has been faulted on the moral ground by almost every Nigerian.

But on the principle of justice, that is talking of morality, even the North voted for MKO Abiola and it was seen that he won clearly. The Northerners wanted him, but the military at that time didn’t want him to rule.

So, the administration was truncated. And, we cannot all be comfortable in a country that is not willing to dispense justice. So, they didn’t want to accommodate that and a riot broke out. I can recall during the protest the number of our colleagues that died.

In Abuja, Port Harcourt, and Benin. I know the number of people that died. Anybody that says lives were not lost, the person doesn’t have a sense of history. There were students’ riots, market women, and so forth, businesses were lost. A lot of things were destroyed in support of Abiola. So, to me, these are legitimate demands. It was not as if it was okay.

They went to court but it didn’t see the light of the day. What these people are now playing in 1998 in which I was a key player. I was Chief of staff to Chief of General staff under Mike Akhigbe under Abdulsalami Abubakar. To achieve the zoning, the north had to prevail on moral ground. The South has taken it for eight years. The North is taking for another eight years so that there will be fairness and equity because it needs to go round.

When you look at it, the north has produced almost all the presidents of Nigeria from Independence. The majority has always taken advantage of the other groups. If not for zoning, Yaya Bello of Kogi won’t be governor. If not for zoning Adams Oshiomhole won’t have been governor of Edo. And so many other wards like that.

There is no way the Binis who have the majority of the voting population won’t win if there is no voting arrangement. You must allow other sides to pick a ticket. It was done on moral ground. We must break the circle and there are so many reasons to give. Looking at the South, it is not as homogenous as the North. We have definite cultural boundaries in the South, but in the North, there is nothing like that. I work in the North for over 12 years.

I know we don’t have clear cultural boundaries as we have in the south. You can hardly differentiate a Fulani man from Maiduguri from a Hausa man from Sokoto. Or a Nupe man in Kano from a Hausa man in Katsina. An Igbo man is always different from an Edo man. You can always mix them up in the north cultural-wise and otherwise. But you cannot in the south. When you zone a ticket to the south you will expect an Igbo man to take it than 2nd and third time you will expect it like that and a Yoruba man will be waiting?

It is not possible. So, it will not work. You cannot throw a ticket to the South-South and you expect an Ijaw man to pick it again. And the other tribes will accept it. It can only happen in the north. But not in the south. So, in the south, the principle of fairness must apply through zoning. We lost four years because of greed. If the North completes its eight years, it is coming back to the South. So, let us consider justice and fairness for the man in the South-East. It is not a legal thing. That the Igbos have not been voting for a political party, does that nullify fairness?

Do you think the APC will consider the South-East for the presidency?
It doesn’t matter what APC thinks. I think of justice. I know the wheel of justice grinds slowly. Giving the ticket to a Northerner or Tinubu, to me it is the end that will justify the means. I am not looking at structure, we are looking at the right candidate from a particular tribe.

We don’t look at the political structure any longer. So, apart from the Igbos being mainly PDP, you saw that most of the APGA people voted for Peter Obi because he is an Easterner. So, if the PDP field an Igbo man as its presidential candidate, I want to assure you that even the APC members who are from the region will vote for such a candidate. We must play our politics right on fairness and justice. And that is the way I see it.

Give a PDP member in the South-East a ticket and an APC member will vote for him in the region. If you pick PDP presidential candidate from the southeast, APC members will vote for him. That is the way I see it. The president is not like the governor. Why are we talking about structure? Did the Yorubas vote for Obasanjo? They didn’t vote for him in 1999.

He lost South-West woefully. I don’t think that applies because the issue of structure should be a product of fairness and justice. If Obasanjo rose to power on the strength of fairness why can’t an Igbo man? There was no structure for Obasanjo. But, if we are considering fairness and justice, then Nigeria will have peace. I make bold to say that God is a God of justice. Let the circle go round before you talk of merit. Don’t change the rules when the game is already ongoing. Has it been concluded?

No. The North is not the same as the South. I want anybody to challenge me on that. The north is homogenous in culture. The south is not like that. Any Hausa man can rule anywhere in the north. An Igbo man cannot rule everywhere in the south. A Southern man cannot rule everywhere in the south. We don’t have that same homogeneity in the South.

You cannot apply that same principle to us. Sokoto can produce president 10 times from the north, they know and they don’t care. So, for us to close the zoning circle, and that of injustice, we are not imprisoning them and they are not being carried along, they are being marginalized, we are not seen as part of this country, the southwest has produced the president, the south has produced the president, the next group is the South-East. Denying them the opportunity, you have perpetuated the greatest injustice to an Igbo man. People say they are not struggling for it. Did Obasanjo struggle for it? We brought him out of the prison and handed the ticket over to him.

Do you think the amended electoral bill be signed into law mandating political parties to adopt direct primaries?
I don’t agree with them on the signing of the direct primary bill into law. We always want something that we can manipulate. In some elections, we use indirect primary and in others, we use direct primaries. Politicians want a system that they can manipulate. If you see them arguing in the national assembly, putting pressure on certain individuals to do certain things, it is for personal reasons. The two have their shorts coming. Both direct and indirect.

The reason some are calling for it is that it will give them an edge over others. That is the one they can use to manipulate the system in their favour. They will not want what will reduce their powers. Or that will water down their authoritarian powers. So, I don’t want us to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

The amended Electoral Act has so many positive sides and the content of the bill is so critical to the political parties. What is about direct and indirect primaries? Is that the end of the election? We should talk about who we present. Nigerians don’t want the system to work. I want to be recognised as the kingmaker. We want to wield so much power against institutions. There is nothing to it.

What is the PSC doing to draw government attention to the pitiable state of the Nigeria Police Force?
Equipping the police is the business of the Ministry of Police Affairs. The government has done something quite good by inaugurating the Police Trust Fund. They now have a lot of money. We are confident that by the time they remove the bottlenecks they will go into full gear. I understand that some vehicles are supposed to be given to the police.

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And I also get to know that there is some investigation like the ICPC have discovered that some of the police vehicles were not properly purchased. And they didn’t meet the standard expected and so they cannot be distributed. If patrol vehicles are not there for the police, how will they function or combat crime? Some organizations are buying vehicles for the police, it is not healthy. If I provide money monthly for the DPO in my division and my person is arrested for a criminal offense, certainly, you can imagine what will happen.

Is that healthy for our system? The person who has been killed or robbed will say because he knows or has a big man behind them. It is very unhealthy for rich Nigerians to buy vehicles for the police. The state governors who do it, yes. They can. But politicians now equipping the police is wrong. And they even brand their names on it. It is sad and terrible.

The constitution of the police trust fund needs to be looked at. Some issues have been raised and I will urge them to look at them. Once all the hindrances are removed, the police will regain their sanity. The president has approved a new salary for the police and I think there are still bottlenecks here and there. They are still earning very little.

It is nothing to write home about. The government needs to listen to them and improve their welfare. Their pension scheme should be removed from the IPPS like Ministry. Why is it even possible that police have not been paid? It is because of the challenges with IPPS.

So also with the army. We are not even supposed to be comparing them. The police are the first line of defence for the country. We must give them special attention. I know the president has done that. But there are still bottlenecks. Because the PTF still has challenges- they are suffering.

Insecurity appears to be on the increase, do you think the President is doing enough in that regard?
The government is doing enough, one, there is room for improvement. I am also in a place that is being threatened by bandits. I know what is going on in my zone and all around me.

But you know that no government can solve this issue with a magic wand. The coronavirus has made the economy of the whole world worst. The production of goods and services has been affected. They are being chased by the cash available and inflation has gone up.

There are job losses in developed countries. If you see how foreigners are suffering and those who migrate. You won’t want to see what they are going through. I am not making up for anybody. But I see the pain, recession, and insecurity as a worldwide thing. People who are from outside have infiltrated this country. it is bad that they are hungry too. Most of these people cannot even speak Fulani.

They speak foreign languages like chad and all others. So, they come in and make farming difficult and all forms of production harsh. It is difficult to crack them down. But the call is coming as it tilts towards community policing. We are tilting towards the state police. We have been running away from it. It is a constitutional matter. As things get worst, the government now begins to see the reason why they must do something to reduce the power of the Nigerian police force.

The eventual solution will be the creation of state police. The local government can have their security. They will be empowered to carry firearms. And, then you will find that no criminal will want to be caught.

And once they know there are one or two persons who will be able to counter them, they will not want to come out and it will eventually be reduced. Hope is not lost. And I think the government is doing something that will bring a solution in a short time.

What is the fate of DCP Abba Kyari? Has he been acquitted of all the charges?
I have not received communication from Abba Kyari yet. I can assure you that his file will reach me as soon as we are convening for the plenary. I have only heard that his file has been transmitted to us, but it has not officially been communicated. If it has, the standing committee on police discipline will be sitting on it which I am a member. And we will look at it and after that, we move it to the plenary to take a decision.

We have had a standing committee since 2016. The disciplinary committee in the police is not like others and, for five years they are litigating. Things must be seen to be done properly. We cannot judge a person by mere accusations. And for one to be properly heard, we must do it gradually. We don’t rush. Even God Almighty is considerate in giving a criminal fair hearing.

That was why the Almighty allowed Adam and Eve to defend themselves. And he asked Adam, why did you do this? And it was not as if he didn’t see them daily. It was not as if he didn’t know their intention. He saw them and their mind. He knew everything but he had to call them, and say, why did you do this? Before he made his pronouncement.

So, justice is fair, free, and equitable. We don’t rush to condemn Abba Kyari. Or rush to say why we are delayed. If you take him to court, it will not be judged in one year. It is not a tribunal. That is given a day that it must wind up. We are going to put the facts and Nigerians will be happy at the end of the day. We will put them in the public domain.

The government recently alerted security agencies of a planned delay in December salary. What does this portray for the welfare of law enforcement officers and the sensitive duty they perform?
It is quite painful and unexpected. Similarly, other public servants have not been paid. It is the kind of system we operate. I have asked some questions and they said the IPPS had some challenges. At the end of the year, they try to reconcile the load that cannot be carried over to 2022.

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So, reconciliation is what is worrying the system. And I am sure too that those working in IPPIS have not gotten their pay either. I was also made to understand that certain bodies are also demanding to be excluded from the IPPIS. So, these are systemic issues that we need to grapple with. But unfortunately, I am seeing in social media how some people are blaming the president. Some are throwing blames that this man has gone abroad to waste money. But nobody has said Nigeria is broke.

Or there is no more money for use for other things. But out of ignorance, we just say anything. It is painful though for you to be owed for one day. We don’t want civil servants to go and steal. Or commit a crime. It is your legitimate right to take good care of your family. But when there is also a legitimate concern, we need to endure and think a way through. We should learn to be civilized. It is wrong to blame the wrong people at all times.