APC-led govt is disaster; I don’t trust PDP either– Bugaje

A former National Secretary of the defunct Action Congress (AC) and chieftain of the Arewa Consultative Forum (ACF), Dr Usman Bugaje, says the All Progressives Congress-led government from the time of former President Muhammadu Buhari to incumbent President Bola Tinubu is a disaster. In this interview with journalists, including Chukwudi Obasi, he talked about the rotation of the presidency between North and South and the kind of leader Nigerian needs in 2027. Bugaje equally threw his weight behind the candidacy of Prince Adewole Adebayo of the Social Democratic Party (SDP), saying he has the character, competence and the courage to do the right things, which is what the country needs at this time to move forward, among other issues

What are your thoughts about the eight-year rotational presidency between the South and the North?

This has been a very familiar conversation in the last 25 years. But a lot has changed, making that kind of conversation outdated. Yes, politics is about popular participation and inclusion; people need good reasons to participate, but what has happened in the last 25 years is that we have tried these models of North and South and all that. The country is only going down the drain. So, I think it is time to start a new conversation and rethink how we can have democracy with development. We’re having democracy with all this noise about North and South, East and West, and what have you, yet, the country is not developing. If anything, it’s de-developing and going down the drain. All the indices of development are taking a nosedive. So, we must recognise every part of this country and be inclusive. We will lose out on the challenges facing us if we continue with all the talks about the North and South. I would rather be a part of the new conversation about what team can fix this country, which is about to break down. This country is about to be run aground by reckless and irresponsible politicians who have held onto power in the last 25 years. They are not ashamed that they have not performed well because they are still discussing their ambitions. Everybody has an ambition to be one thing or the other. People are talking about their turn and their turn, but what have they done with those turns? People are destroying this country. We won’t allow that; we can’t continue these conversations. As I said, we have to recognise everybody, include everybody and consult, but this should not deteriorate to a level where we start looking at a turn-by-turn kind of presidency or become fixated with this formula of North and South. Some people would say, oh, this tribe has not had its chance, so they have to have their chance. Okay, what have those tribes that have had their chance done? So, is it a tribal matter in the 21st century?

I don’t think you or the ACF were this fervent when it was said to be the turn of the North, so why are you so fervent about this issue now?

This is not the first time I started talking about it. I talked about it in 2019 and all through 2023. Before then, even in 2015, I have consistently said Muhammadu Buhari’s presidency was a disaster, and he did so many other things. He was putting too many Northerners in the security sector for no benefit for the North. Buhari’s experience proves that putting somebody from one part of the country to become president doesn’t work. It doesn’t make sense because what do you want him to do, to favour his part of the country and abandon others? This is very naive, to say the least. I’m pointing out that you can achieve inclusion but not at the expense of development. One way to do it, for example, is to recognize that no part of the country has a monopoly of competence. Competent Nigerians are in the South-West, South-East, South-South, North-East, North-West, and North-Central. Why don’t you pick those competent Nigerians from different parts of the country to fix and run your country? Why do you go for people who are barely educated, people who are crooks, people who have no idea of where to take this country, people who cannot engage the world, who don’t even understand anything? They only know primitive accumulation and consumption with very perverse tastes, simply running the country down. This is why I said inclusion is a critical aspect of governance. And you can achieve that and still achieve development by bringing in more competent people. Some technocrats can fix the energy and transportation sectors and improve infrastructure. The few that have come into government have been elbowed out. Some of them have been chased out of government because corruption will not accept what they want to do. And I feel very sad. We and several Nigerians, and by the way, across the board, not just the North, the East, the West, stood up to the military during the time of Abacha. We fought for democracy. But this is not the kind of democracy we want to see. We want a democracy that takes cognizance of competence, recognizes knowledge in the 21st century as the greatest capital, and tries to mobilize. And Nigeria has a lot of these competent and talented people. Why don’t we bring them into governance? Why don’t they lead the process? Why do we need some politicians who don’t understand the world in the 21st century and who have no record of doing anything competent anywhere, and all their life has been a life of sleaze and corruption? And because they have accumulated money through those corrupt practices, they buy everybody off. And now, we have a National Assembly that is literally for sale. They cannot stand up to the president on anything, so this is the point. We have to change the conversation because we need a new narrative and be constantly aware. And I keep repeating that in 2030, just another five years from now, we will be 300 million. Already today, we have more than 33 million people on the verge of starvation. These are figures from the United Nations bodies. We had a grain deficit of more than 30 million metric tons last year alone. We have 20 million out-of-school children, the highest around the world. We have all these terrible statistics that we’re not addressing. These politicians are not discussing these matters. They are talking about their ambition, turn, and who will be the next president. We have to form a coalition to chase President Bola Tinubu out, just like we did to President Goodluck Jonathan.

If you say it’s time to abolish the zoning system, then ultimately, everything will be tipped in favour of the North. How do you balance it out?

The Constitution already does that because the House of Representatives is population-based. I think this North and South thing should not cloud the presidential ticket. We have to prioritize knowledge, competence, courage, and character. The most important thing is character. Yes, the North, in terms of size, is 78 percent of the country’s size. You can put the whole state in the North in Niger State, and they will still have another space for the whole of the size of the North, even though there will be land remaining. Yes, that is it. This is geography. There is nothing we can do about that. But the point I’m making is that we must not lose sight of this country is sinking. And if we continue with this North and South thing, we will lose sight of the fact that this country cannot develop. So, we need to change the conversation, and in doing so, yes, the votes come from the North. President Tinubu got over 60 percent of his votes from the North.

If a northerner were the president, would you be talking this way? In 2019, the ACF declared that it would only support candidates from the North for the presidency.

If you want the ACF’s position, then you should get the ACF spokesman to answer that question. I, as Usman Bugaje, have not made that statement, and I don’t believe in it. I have made it very clear that while inclusion is important, I do not insist that a president must come from a particular part of the country beyond the fact that we should make sure we prioritize competence, character, and the courage to do the right thing.

Are you saying if the president is a northerner, you would still be saying all of this?

You may have followed what I’ve been saying. During Buhari’s time, I was at the forefront of criticising the way he was ruling. And in 2019, I didn’t support him. In 2023, I didn’t even support the All Progressives Congress (APC), but I made it very clear. I’m making a point that some people say what you are saying, but I’m not one of them. I have my views. I have my understanding. I’m a northerner, and I care about the North. Every part of this country should be developed; otherwise, we will not have peace. You have to go global, and you know very well that many international institutions are trying to reduce inequality worldwide because whatever happens to one part of the world will affect the other. The globe has become a village. So, the point I’m making is, let us not continue with this conversation of North and South. Let us change the conversation and start a new discussion about getting competent people with character and courage to run this country.

Will you now support Atiku Abubakar? Do you believe he can get the job done with all these traits?

In 2019 and 2023, I supported Atiku Abubakar because of all the candidates that came out; he was the one I thought would do it. That’s my own choice, and everybody has his choice. I’m not an Atiku man. I’m not anybody’s man. When I was in the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN), Atiku left, and I remained. If I were his man, I would have gone with him. So I’m my person and don’t believe in anybody’s man. People should have the courage to make their own decisions. Therefore, I’m not going to be anybody’s man.

If Atiku runs again in 2027, would you support him?

No. In fairness to what I’ve been saying, if you have been listening, I have been saying that this idea of supporting one candidate with whatever combination of balancing of the ticket to go into the villa to lock the gates and then the wife would become the Queen Elizabeth the first and the children become some prince and princess of Saudi Arabia and start behaving the way they like, is outdated. We must not allow this country to fall into the hands of this kind of people. I would rather, and I’m not talking about Atiku here; I’m talking about all of them. I would rather we do a collegiate leadership, where we get the best and the brightest, and there are a lot of them in this country, to come forward and salvage the country. That’s my view, and I’ve expressed it openly in many places. I do not support someone because he has been an old politician who has been around for some time and then a combination of them. I am not. I have made this point very clear.

According to the publicity secretary of the ACF, Nigerians were sold an anti-corruption dummy in 2015, and from your assessment of the APC government, you’re not very satisfied. What are some of the lessons that we can learn from the areas you feel they haven’t performed very well as a government?
My view of the APC government is very well-known. I have made it very clear. I’ve put it in writing. It has appeared in papers, and if you want the view of the ACF, it has a spokesperson who can speak for it and probably defend whatever it says. But for me, the APC government from Buhari is a disaster for this country, and I’m not saying the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) will do any better. In fact, at the moment, and I’ve said this several times, I don’t trust the APC, the PDP, the All Progressives Grand Alliance (APGA), and the Labour Party. I don’t trust any of them as they stand at the moment. I don’t. What will work for Nigeria is collegiate leadership that is of the best and the brightest. And we did attempt to do that. If you can remember, we launched a platform called Rescue Nigeria Project. Ituah Ighodalo was part of it. Pat Utomi was part of it. Prof Attahiru Jega and several other people were part of it. What we were trying to do then, and we have not given up, was to get some of the best and the brightest people who can fix the problems of this country, not politicians who are just out to make money and who do not even understand the terrain. They are oblivious to what is happening around the world. Therefore, they don’t read books. They don’t engage in debates. They don’t share information across the globe. And they are fixated. How do they distribute rice to these poor, ordinary Nigerians who have no idea what is happening?

Former governor, Nasir el-Rufai said President Tinubu might get President Goodluck Jonathan’s treatment. Why do you think these two southern presidents are the ones who are being perceived or predicted to do only one term, and what do you think are the decisive factors in that?

You need to get back to Jonathan’s time and see the kind of position I’ve held. As far as I can remember, I’ve been consistent on this matter. If you cannot perform, you leave. What is the performance of the 2024 budget for this particular president? My figure is that the budget performance was only 22 percent. Do you think these kinds of people should be allowed to continue? Now, forget that he’s from the South, North, or anywhere. If he cannot perform wherever he comes from, he should leave. So, this idea of saying because I’m from the North and I need a northerner cannot work. We have tried it, and even those who attempted it now see it does not work. What will work for this country is people of character, competence, and the courage to do the right thing, and there are many such people. However, the political culture and the political arrangement will not allow them. And you don’t wait for these politicians to allow you. We have to struggle to find our way. We must find a platform, mobilize the country, and try. This incumbency that you’re talking about, look at what happened in Senegal.

If you did not support Atiku in the last election, who would you have supported next?
Honestly, I didn’t know Peter Obi enough to support him. I’ve been in this business for 25 years, and there are ways to measure people and size them up. So, the people I saw around him were not ready to take the nation together. They were all reacting or angry about a particular part of the country, and they were all fuming and trying to go on a vengeance, so, that was my worry. I would have supported Prince Adewole Adebayo of the Social Democratic Party (SDP). He comes across to me as somebody who understands the terrain and this country. I don’t have a complete background of what he has been doing, but as a person, he comes across as somebody who knows what he wants to do.