A former Minister of Education, Dr Obi Ezekwesili, says the strong movement for the Labour Party (LP) candidate, Peter Obi and his running mate, Ahmed Baba-Datti, is a fallout of the failure of both the All Progressives Congress (APC) and Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) that have ruled the country. In this Channels TV ‘Politics Today’ monitored by DAVID LAWANI, the former Vice-President of World Bank expresses optimism that the LP candidate would bring Nigeria out of the woods

What is your thought on a day like this when Nigeria celebrates its 62 Independence Day anniversary?
It is amazing and it offers you contrast. The contrast in this particular case is evident as you can see clearly. On the one hand, we are in the cups of something as different from what we have seen before. An activation of citizens’ participation in our electoral process. Our democracy is getting the benefits of active citizenship. That is a great one. And, then, on the other hand, these feelings in some way perhaps drive this activation. This means that at 62 years we have not been able to produce the extent of important development outcomes in contemporary Nigeria’s very far-flung surrounding world, especially in countries that have similar histories to ours. So, you have got this sense of disappointment that we have not done well as we could have done. And yet lying side by side now at this moment we celebrate our 62nd of independence in some sense shows that there is some awakening that is going on. Hope fails not. And, it doesn’t make you ashamed right?

If there is anything that has held back the nation from fulfilling its aspiration, what do you think that could be?
I think everyone you have interviewed shows that no matter the technical reason, they provide, in the summation, they end up saying leadership is our problem. It is unbelievable and for decades after decades, we will analyze the beautiful conditions of the country and you will see people conclude whether they are discussing the health sector, education, infrastructure, and basic governance. After all the technical things have been said, they will then end up and say leadership is our greatest problem. And why is that so? It is so because frankly is that organic process or all the potentials you possibly have that coherence needed to champion a course towards a clear destination? If you don’t have it, you are going to be in the kind of situation that we have. So, you have all the factors that could lead to growth yet there is no coherence. There is no coherent direction of the energies that are possible. And so what you end up with will be a pitiful outcome. I often say to people that the importance of this concept of leadership is established to empirical analysis that shows more and more that the absence of good governance is the biggest way to development. It is the biggest barrier you can have to grow. The absence of good governance is not just the absence of systems and procedures, structures, and institutions. It is most importantly the absence of that human capability to lead and direct, organise and mobilise, and inspire people to aspire towards something better than their current state.

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How would you describe the performance of the government of the day, are you disappointed?
I am surprised that you are asking me this question. I am one of the Nigerians that stay persistent to the extent of demanding good governance in this country. I demanded good governance even in the government that I worked in. I was known as madam due process. I was not liked by the people even in the government because of this demand to govern well. If we don’t govern well, then the opportunities that are necessary to inspire social and economic mobility even outside the privileges that we have had will not come to pass. So, we needed good governance even at the time in the economic team, sub-committee of the team leader of administration, good governance, accountability and transparency, and economic governance aspect. The reason why I said that was because I stay consistent with that. I demanded good governance.

And you never kept quiet?
I never kept quiet.

What are your thoughts when you were made the speaker of the APC retreat, what has changed?
You can ask people to go to your website and download the speech and compare it to now as things stand in the country. The story of that speech was essentially saying that the idea and all you need to do is to focus on the vacuous statement of a political set of people who have a different set of acronyms to get development. It is a ruse. It doesn’t portray reality. So, I was essentially saying that if you are going to be effective in governance, for example, I remember the Denver primaries of Barrack Obama. When Obama was contesting, I was one of those who was at the sections about whether should he win the ticket. The issues around development. So, it was not unusual for me to be invited. I said to them, are you sure you are inviting me to come and speak to a group of politicians, not in Nigeria, and they said yes. I said go and check that you are inviting me. And I had to say it with candour. I said to them that Nigeria’s issues from an empirical analysis have not been about the political party, it has been that we have lacked the kind of leadership that in one person and persons in order words our leadership class and our political class, we have not seen an amalgam of people with the requisite skills of leadership. Skills of leadership are not things that happen by mere talk or something thinking I could be a leader. Those attributes of competence, character, and capacity, there a deliberateness behind them. That then enables people to mobilise the kind of action that is necessary to deliver on his/her mandate.

If you look at the presidential candidates, do you think one or two of them possess this kind of character or trait that you have talked about?

I do think that regardless of the parameter that you used, at least we might find up to three people whom you could say there are certain parts of the boxes that they tick. We have been saved badly by our political class which is part of why I am excited that young people are entering that space. Women are entering the space and it gives me enormous joy. But you know, somebody says to you, between a possible president including the three frontrunners, that we currently have, a Tinubu, Atiku, as president? Do you need anybody to possibly tell you where to be? For goodness sake, it will be an Obi. This is because even though he comes from that particular political class, we are talking about still at least representing many shades better than the other two contestants who are also top candidates. So, I believe that the momentum that we are driving through at the moment this time is momentum, is like saying let us even evaluate our leaders and I think the most significant thing for me is really that society must come to the place where we will say we want to vote for ourselves.

It is on record that looking through our elections, young people have not been serious about coming out on Election Day. Will 2023 be any different considering their docility?
I have been very close to young people all my life. I am a beneficiary of elders who took interest in my life. So, when you look at the likes of Justice Kayode Esho, he was a mentor. Our dear Gamaliel Onosode was a mentor. I have been mentored by credible people. So, you can imagine young I was then. They gave me a chance to sit with me and shear wisdom with me. I am not disdainful of young people in the way that sometimes I hear people speak. There is so much that has been against our young people in our society. And sometimes when you see some of the behaviours, they don’t like, it pains me. But I understand where that is coming from. Put aside what happened on October 20, the young people must have the courage and they said we are tired. You need to listen to us. And, they made a statement. But they were not listened to and it was mischaracterised as something other than what the young people were saying. I sometimes imagine how governance in this country will be if those in leadership listen to these young people.

Will there be a threat to this traditional leadership in this country by these young people?
I have prayed for that! I am so excited. We thank God that as part of that whole process, we need to get our society to understand that in a democracy, you cannot ask the citizens to be on the periphery and then expect something valuable to happen. It won’t, I went on after I ran for president and in Benin, I was researching why our politics is constantly failing us not just in Nigeria. But across the continent. And one thing became clear in my analysts. What we have is a monopoly kind of democracy. We have monopoly democracies because the political class act like a monopolist. They occupy the entire space which I call the triangular pillars of democracy. And, then the citizens are on the periphery. The regulators of the political process are also in the pockets of the political class. The supply side is dominant. Therefore, they exercise authority that the monopolies who have no incentives will give you anything of value. The main thing is that profit making is high beyond control. In our democracy, that I what we have had. I did say in that research that the way to get citizens into the space that they should occupy in democracy would be to challenge and contest all the barriers found in the way of their involvement. And, for the middle class, coming to a place where they realise that we are cooked. They suddenly realised that, hey, we cannot continue like this. In the middle class, the person who can acquire a university degree is literate enough to function in that space. But you know the joblessness doesn’t allow them to be able to function. But they have come to the awareness that we have the power. I coin a name, called the office of the citizens, and it is the most powerful office in the land. And, now they are realising it and they have activated it. Some people are mocking. Some people are mocking this whole development.

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Don’t you think because it has not happened in an electoral circle, people trade votes and poverty is at the highest level and that factor is still there in 2023, you cannot take away the fact that people will be offered N5, 000 to N10, 000 for their votes, it will still be for the highest bidder who gets the day, what are your views on money politics and the dangers it portends for 2023 general election?
It is a legitimate counterpoint to the enthusiasm and elation that we feel at current development. We must not say that doesn’t matter in any way because it does matter. There is still a segment of the electorate whose productivity is so low and they have been so debased by the situation of the country. So, for them, it is rational they may want to vote for whoever gave them the N1, 000, we will still have that, but the issue which you now have to put into your model through which you are looking analytically at what our politics could is better driven. You have to look at the date of young people with education or young people who are in the educational process who are now saying we will participate in this and we are going to drive and we are going to make sure we stay with it. Now, the decision that they have made is to not look away from what they are used to. In the past, our democracy was one for the people in the lowest income bracket, now, you are seeing the people of the middle class who have acted irresponsibly in our political space. They are now saying we are not going to do that. When you look at the data, the ones that are self-organising, we don’t have a situation where a political party is distributing stipends to some people and saying vote for us. Yet, the citizens are self-organising. It is an inter-generational thing that we are seeing at the moment. We have a situation where some people are saying they are tired and they don’t want to be part of it. You cannot dismiss this phenomenon. What is important for this phenomenon is for it to be better organised. It just needs to be strategic in its approach and I fear that the existing system is going to find many for voter suppression which will be inimical to the process. We must be anticipatory and pre-emptive so that we can take the kind of action that will counter any attempt to stay entrenched and maintain the status quo.

Do you see religion and ethnicity, in terms of political alignment, playing a major role?
We are a diverse society. We know that it is important to manage our diversity efficiently and effectively. And equitably. I think that there is a segment of this population that looks at what APC and PDP did. And they find it utterly contemptible. First, in APC, how could you possibly be fielding Muslim-Muslim ticketing in a society that has always found its way in balance? Even in the time of the military, they were smart to always find a way like a northern head of state will always find a deputy Christian from the south. And then you come to democracy and you are not even sensitive to people’s feelings. That is like being a contemptible segment of your population. That is not right. And then you look at the PDP- this a party that said it was built around inclusion and it sort of made it possible for the rotation for the regions so that people will always support their candidate and suddenly we have a candidate who emerges that has been running for much other time, why will that happen? You know clearly that the time of the people apart from the South-East, designed it to be. It is now and you just stage that. Yet, you have the arrogance to be saying to them because I have no reason to complain. This is the season for character, competence, and capacity. My goodness, that is sophistry, if you are going to use competence, character, and capacity, many of them don’t qualify. I am saying we should be the ones running. Within the South-East they would have found somebody of competence, character, and capacity. And by the way, Mr. Obi who is a candidate for labour party was at your party. So, if you needed competence, character, and clarity, equitably, that is inclusive in your PDP you could have made Peter Obi become your candidate. When you look at this you will now see that there are many segments of society that are vexed. People poor begin to say this is an Igbo people’s thing. It is not true. I have so many people who are from the north. People from the south who are Muslims have simply said it is not proper for the two dominant parties to act the way they did. A lot of that is all fuelling the kind of support that Peter Obi is getting.

How do you think the 2023 general elections will pan out?
Two things are possible. That this extant political class in their ruthlessness simply says we are not going anywhere. So, they will do anything including taking the nation down to maintain the status quo. That is a possible outcome. But, it will be an outcome that we can mitigate against by the collective efforts of the citizens across the land. And, then the other outcome is one where the citizens are self-organising and even more strategically. And they understand that everybody should be at a polling booth with their PVCs and ready to vote. And not just vote but that they will stay there and be the guardian angels of the votes of citizens’ rights. But especially just making sure that the credible process that the INEC has put in place is what we get. INEC as the regulator of the political system just has to be above board. It must be above board beyond reproach. And anything contrary will not be welcome by the citizens.