Nigeria Is 60 Years. As an independent nation. When you look back, is this a happy moment for us? Should we feel sad? Are we on the right track?
Well, the fact that we have our independence, it is worth celebrating any day. But like someone said, I think the leader of a group in a Francophone country or so asked, when it comes to democratic independence, someone asked if they were not better of under the French?
Because the French looked organized and they put up a good administrative system that made them achieve economic development. But another person countered that even if they were disorganized, it is better they are ruling themselves, they are under their own self-rule, self-governance.
So, any ex-colony should celebrate independence. But, of course, if you look at what has since then happened, of course we achieved some fantastic level of economic developments from independence to the 70s, early 80s. But with regards to the kind of democracy we have from 1999 to the current period, in the last five years, you will see that we have been retrogressing. We have been retrogressing! All the development indices indicate that Nigeria is leading in underdevelopment: The poverty capital of the world; the gap between rich and poor is widening. Unemployment rate today, the NBS talks about 13%, but of course, it is much more than that.
So, in terms of this October, we will be celebrating things that do not exist. That is to say Nigeria is retrogressing in terms of economic development, in terms of democratic development, if you want political development, in terms of corruption! We will go on to celebrate, but what will we be celebrating?
Does this scenario you have painted sadden you? Did you have much hope for this country? Some of you joined the army and wanted a country that worked. Now, your hopes appeared dashed?
You know, the fact that Nigeria is facing serious security challenges all over, we are talking of the Northeast virtually taken over by Boko Haram insurgents; the Northwest that used to be one of the breadbaskets of the country being taken over by bandits, there’s kidnapping all over the country.
So, in terms of security, the sector which I served for 25 years, I will say that things have really gotten bad.
In all these security challenges, we have not yet accepted that we have a problem, because the beginning of the solution to a problem is to accept that there is a problem. Nigeria clearly has insecurity problems, security challenges. But this government is in denial. You can see we keep rehashing this idea that, ‘oh by 2015 17 local governments in the Northeast were under Boko Haram, but today there is no local government that is under Boko Haram,’ which is not true.
The truth is that Boko Haram is more deadly today than it was in 2015. All the areas they are talking about, the 17 local governments have become IDPs; they are not living in those areas. Even if Boko Haram is not holding territory, the fact that people are displaced means that there is no security in that area. Eric, today we have even added banditry to the insecurity of 2015; banditry, kidnapping in the Northwest. If you look at the solution they are applying, they are spreading the security forces so thinly on the ground. If you go to a local government in the Northeast or Northwest you will discover that instead of having a battalion of maybe 600 soldiers, you have 30 soldiers. So, security forces are thinly spread.
If you recall from the beginning of the civil war the Nigerian Army was less than ten thousand officers and men. But by the end of the civil war, 30 months later, January 1970, the Nigerian Army had ballooned to about 250,000. So, for a solution as far as I am concerned, you have to engage in massive recruitment, training and retraining of personnel. There must be massive recruitment. There must be a mapped out plan to say this is when there must be decisive end to Boko Haram and banditry and kidnapping. But that is not happening. Unfortunately, the government is not open to counsel. It is such an insular administration. They are not open to advice! They don’t seek advice. They are not so open to advice. There are many people they can reach out to for advice on what to do, but unfortunately they are so insular.
Are you saying things could have been done differently? Because in 2015, the goodnews was that an army general was coming in as president and commander-in-chief. Could things have been handled differently from what we have today?
Absolutely! In the military, when we are about to embark on an operation, we have to do what we call military appreciation. In this military appreciation, we look at what kind of operation we are about to embark on, the strength of the enemy, your own strength, and then you look at the task that you have. If they did the right assessment of the enemy vis-à-vis our own security forces and the tasks at hand, they would have known that what we have now is not up to the correct strength of (the enemy) forces. Like I said earlier, before the civil war we were not up to ten thousand troops, we had to get our recruitment to up to 250,000 after the war because of deaths and losses during the war. If they had listened they should have employed more troops.
Even before you talk about infrastructure, the primary responsibility of any government is the security of lives and property. So, instead of talking about roads, railways, transport, the immediate task of this government is to secure this country. And as you can see, they have not been able to defeat Boko Haram. The president said he was going to defeat Boko Haram in six months after taking over in 2015, but apart from Boko Haram, we also have this new forms of banditry and kidnapping in the country.
Nigeria is less secure today than it was in 2015. That is the truth. So, whether you are a general or civilian, if you have the right people around you, you should be able to recruit more people. If you don’t have the right people with you, as a general you will not be able to achieve much in terms of the security of the nation.
What of the service chiefs? There has been so much talk about retaining or sacking the service chiefs. Should they stay or should they be kicked out?
That is what we keep hearing about. That, oh the problem is the service chiefs. I don’t think actually the problem is the service chiefs. The problem is much more than that. The problem is much more than that. Under normal circumstances, service chiefs should not stay as long as these ones have stayed. But, to be honest with you, I don’t think the problem is the service chiefs. We have to sit and analyse, and proffer solutions to these growing insecurity. Not just a question of changing security chiefs.
What about the fight against corruption? 60 years after, are we more or less corrupt than we were before and after independence?
Again, if you look at the fight against corruption, the kind of corruption we are talking about, that oh a governor has mismanaged resources or a politician or a top level businessman has done this or that. There is much more to corruption in Nigeria than top level corruption. When you drive from point A to B, you find security personnel taking bribe. That is corruption. The gap between rich and poor is widening, what has brought it about if not corruption, and then you find a Nigerian or an African having over one billion dollars, it cannot be product of hard work.
Look at our economy holistically the way it is being operated, it fuels corruption. So, when we are told that an ex- governor has done this or that, in the end what we have achieved is (the conviction) of two governors, Chief Joshua Dariye of Plateau State and Jolly Nyame of Taraba State . Apart from Dariye N1.2bn and Nyame N1.6bn, and then, the former PDP spokesman, Olisa Metuh on account of N400m for which he was jailed for seven years. Are we saying these are the only ones that have committed crime? Metuh was said to have used the money during the 2014/2015 campaigns. Are we saying APC didn’t expend money during the campaigns? So, we have to look at it holistically this corruption issue.
What are your views on the former EFCC chairman, Ibrahim Magu’s saga?
The case of Magu is still being investigated by a former Court of Appeal president. So, I think it is only fair to wait and see what the report says.
Before we move on to other issues, let me ask this question: You must have something to credit this government for. Are you saying they haven’t achieved anything in five years?
It is not as if one is saying they have not achieved anything at all. But, what you must look at in assessing this government is to look at their three-point agenda: the fight against corruption; the fight against insecurity and then, economic development.
Take all the three. You don’t need me to analyze the state of our economy today, do a comparative analysis of prices goods and services. Prices five years ago and what it is today. Take the common issue of rice, a bag of rice imported was N7,500 in 2015; today, it is about N30,000; garri, bread etc.
The dollar, forex; from N195, today it is N450 in the parallel market. So you can see not much has been achieved. You can see that closing down the border to safeguard agricultural products has not worked, simply because insecurity has made it impossible for even farmers to engage in farming. In this kind of situation, the right thing to do is to open the borders. When we improve security then we may want to protect the farmers.
The truth is not much farming activities are going on today particularly in the north. This government has declared that the right thing to do is to close the borders to protect our farmers, but government has since realized that the rise, the astronomical rise in the price of food commodities is the border closure and the insecurity that has made it impossible for our farmers to produce. Most businesses are shutting down, before COVID. We all blame it on COVID, but the reality is, even before COVID most companies were shutting down due to very poor economic environment; shops are moving out of the country. The smaller ones here are shutting down.
The issue of security we have already discussed. We had the issue of the challenge of Boko Haram in 2015, but now almost every section of this country is battling insecurity, be it banditry or kidnapping. Kaduna that I live and stay, there is no way that I travel 20kms out of Kaduna without the fear of being affected. That is the second agenda.
The other one is anti-corruption fight. Like I said, I don’t think much of that too. Only two former governors have so far being jailed. Then, Olise Metuh. Why should Olisa Metuh go to jail on account of receiving N400m which he used for PDP campaign of 2014/2015. Are we saying that APC didn’t use that kind of money in their campaign? So, he should not be in jail. Is that the way to fight corruption?
So you score them low on their three-point agenda?
Yes!
Eminent Nigerians like Obasanjo and Soyinka have said that Nigeria now more divided than ever. But the presidency disagrees saying they inherited a divided nation. Here you are also criticising government. When your views come out, the reaction is likely to be that the Babangida government you served prominently also contributed to the mess of today. Do you agree?
That is the tragedy. That is the tragedy. When people speak out, you should look at what they are saying, and reflect, and if there is the need to effect correction you go ahead and do that. If there’s need to respond, you should respond in a positive way; show what the analyst has said is wrong and countering it in a positive way.
You look at the message! For example, on the issue of the country now being more divided than before which President Obasanjo and Prof Soyinka alluded to. You should bring out the statistics if you have any to show that they are not correct. It is not enough to respond that the government inherited a polarized nation. Even if that was true, you were elected to correct these ills. So, it is not right to say we inherited a polarized nation. What have you done since you inherited a polarized nation? Was Nigeria left polarized than it is now, five years ago?
Look at the statistics. People are talking about appointments in government; people are talking about what the various ethnic groups are doing against one another; what the two religions are doing. So, it is not enough to just say because we inherited a polarized nation, you cannot improve it.
Whoever points to that polarization is an enemy of the government. Government must be made to listen to people, and it must stand to be corrected. This idea of just throwing out insults will not solve anything. It is always better to respond in a positive way.
Buhari came to power with the best of support of the general populace. You must leave that office with the same kind of appreciation that people had of him: A man of integrity, a nationalist, an incorruptible person, but for Goodness sake, look at what is going on today. If this government should stop today, what kind of legacy is it going to leave behind? Are people satisfied that this is a government that has been able to fight against this polarization or have they improved on the polarization that they inherited?
You see, no matter what I say they will say I am saying all I am saying because I served in the Babangida government. They will look at it from that prism. They will say ‘oh, Col Umar is biased’. I will leave that to you to go and find out from the people if this APC government has done well or not.
My readers would ask me why didn’t you ask Dangiwa Umar about the Babangida years. You served in the government that annulled june 12 elections, you subsequently resigned from the army. Would you want to throw light on these issues?
You know, the reason people listen to people like us is simply because, even the government that we served, when we realised it was derailing we decided to call it out. We said, ‘look, what you are doing is wrong, so please change. If you do not change, we cannot belong.’ And we left!
When Abacha came to power, I am sure you realized that not many people called his administration out on account of its misdeeds. Even then we were being vilified by supporters of that government, public functionaries, members of that government or even the public on account of maybe, ethnic or religious consideration. We were being vilified. The same thing happened under Obasanjo.
When we realized he was doing certain things wrong, we called him out. So, we have remained consistent. Even during the Jonathan administration, Umaru Yar’Adua. We have had cause to challenge them on wrong policies. To ensure that there is a policy change. This administration has not shown so much tolerance to counterviews. This is what we should they do. They should listen to counterviews and respond in a positive manner, not just vilifying Obasanjo, Soyinka or whoever that points out that what they are doing is wrong.
You have gone through grave risks for the position you take as critic of government. Do you sometimes regret that it’s not being worth it?
Before you embark on great risks, you must identify what the dangers are. Like Martin Luther King said the arc of the moral compass is long but it bends towards justice. You need people who will push it through truth and justice. And if you are one of them, you will go through a lot of pains, but you must endure. Never regret. In the pursuit of truth, you will suffer persecution, detention or whatever. It is well worth it. If you must stand by the truth, it gives a lot of joy once justice is achieved.
Some people describe you as a conscientious objector, iconoclast and rebel. How do you describe yourself?
We have been given all sorts of labels. People like Nelson Mandela were accused of being a rebel, iconoclast, all sorts of names. But what you must look at is, what cause did we pursue? Was it the June 12 annulment? Were we wrong to say it was wrong (for the results to be annulled)? Was it the call for the exit of Gen. Abacha? Was it for the kind of corruption that was going on, the human rights abuses? Or was it our decision to fight against third term, Obasanjo’s third term agenda? The latest, the lopsided appointments by this government?
So, whoever goes against the grain, whoever decides to do what we do, you will be given a lot of labels; will be vilified, but if what you are doing is in tune with what the good lord said we should do: speak truth to power, then you should not be deterred by criticisms. Human rights activism comes with a lot of pain, a lot of deprivations. It is easier to just agree with government and live a posh life. But to fight the kind of battles we have been fighting is painful, attracts a lot of derision, deprivation. What we are lacking today, diminishing, is human rights activism. If you speak the truth, you are vilified. So, you say oh, it is better to play safe; it is better to be comfortable. Let me just enjoy life with my family. If you speak truth to power, it doesn’t matter what adverse reaction you get.
You are a prince from Kebbi. You are supposed to be part of the aristocratic class. So, how come you are fighting for the downtroden?
You know, in pursuit of the idea of what my great grand father, Othman Dan Fodio, did…You see, there is a lot misunderstanding. People think that Othman Dan Fodio was just a Jihadist, who was out to conquer territories, bring the whole of Nigeria under his Caliphate leadership.
That was not what Shehu Othman Dan Fodio did. He waged Jihad against the excesses of the Hausa traditional rulers. The Jihad was meant to engender socio and economic existence among the people, justice and fairness. This was what he did. You can see that Othman Dan Fodio never appointed any of his sons, grandsons to any of the sections of the Caliphate that he ruled. Once he had established a place and found the right people, he moved on peacefully. He lived the rest of his life teaching and preaching.
So, what I am doing is exactly what he said we should do. If we see injustice, we should fight against it; we should fight against oppression. We should not seek political power for the fun of it. He was in the vanguard in the fight against impunity. That’s what I have done. Having being appointed the governor of Kaduna state in 1985, after three years I called it quits.
I have not sought any political office since then. I have not been a minister; I have not been chairman of any board appointed by government. What I have done is to sit here in Kaduna and watch, and engaged in farming when it was possible to farm. But with this insecurity now, I have actually retired from farming. And once in a while I add my voice to the call for justice and fairness in the land.
Kaduna you once governed is up in insecurity. Does this worry you? Does gov. el-Rufai consult some of you ex-governors on the way out of this seeming intractable security challenges?
To be honest with you, I distance myself from politicians. Also, I have never criticized any of my successors. So, I am here in Kaduna. I watch events. I don’t get involved in the local politics. In fact, since I left government, I have never been to Government House, Kaduna. So, I am totally detached from what is going on.
What are your views on the Fulani-herdsmen clashes, fuel scarcity and hike in electricity tariff?
There is need to differentiate between the conflict between the Fulani herdsmen and the farmers; there’s the terror, the atrocities being committed by the Fulani kidnappers. These are the Fulani that have gone rogue. They are even kidnapping herdsmen. So, the Fulani kidnappers are not the same as the herdsmen. These are the issues we should be able to discuss in future.
But there is a case of mistaken identity. There is this conflict the government should pay attention to, the conflict between the farmers and the herders; conflict on diminishing land resource. And also the activities of rogue Fulanis who are kidnapping, who are involved in banditry. Unless we identify the difference between the two, we are bound to go wrong.
I will want to see more prosecution of these rogue Fulani that have made life so unbearable for people, particularly the farmers. Government needs to do more. We need to see more prosecution and punishment, so that we can see the end to these kidnappings and banditry.
On fuel price increase, you see when the president came in in 2015, he was the one who said subsidy is fraud, that if we could make our four refineries functional we should be able to do away with subsidy. What I got out of the statement was that subsidy is a criminal enterprise; that there shouldn’t be any subsidy. That we should be able to sell a litre of fuel for less than N65. I think Tam David-West said it could be far less. When you took over a litre was N97. Why should you take it to N158.
Why didn’t you repair the refineries. Unless you repair the refineries the prices of the product will continue to go up. And again, because this government is terribly short of funds, it is almost impossible for this government to meet its recurrent expenditure without borrowing. So, they don’t have any option than to increase prices, you got to the VAT, SURE-subsidy and so on.
They are looking for ways to raise revenue so they call it effective borrowing. I remember in 1984 when Gen Buhari toppled the Shagari government, one of the things he said was that Nigeria had become a debtor nation. If we are going to stop this importation of fuel, we have to repair the refineries. In the meantime, government must take into account the level of poverty in the land. With coronavirus, people are losing their economic capacity to survive, and any increase (in infrastructure services) will be seen as real punishment by the people.
How have you been keeping body and soul together? I know you used to be into ostrich farming. How has it been?
