A chieftain of the All Progressives Congress (APC) in the South-West, and a former Minister Communications, Dr. Adebayo Shittu, speaks with KASSIM OMOMIA and DEBORAH MUSA on the state of the nation
Why do think you were not reappointed as a minister like most others by the president?
Mr President will know better. I think what is important for me is that I have discharged all my responsibilities satisfactorily and creditably, and I have satisfied my conscience and I believe that in the circumstances of the operating environment, one could not have done better. Of course, I’m not perfect; nobody is perfect. Everybody has his weaknesses, but the choice of appointment and reappointment is that of Mr President solely, so he will be in the best position to know the reasons. But having said that, I’m also aware that some forces who were cruel people in the loss of our state to PDP heaped the blame on me because one of our elders in the party said that. He told me that I was not reappointed because I was alleged to have been the one who messed up the party, and I asked him how could one individual mess up the party? Many people were forced to leave and join forces with PDP at that time. Of course, I never left the party for a day. I can beat my chest to say that nobody in the South-West has promoted the APC government more than I’ve done over the last six years, but the important thing is the choice of Mr President to decide what he does, and I want to say that even after my non-reappointment, I still had to thank Mr President for bringing me up to the national level. Before then, I was a local champion in Oyo State, but today, I know that every enlightened Nigerian, if you mention my name, will say that was the former Minister of Communication who is a politician from Oyo State. I thank God, and I thank Mr President.
With this introductory remark, would you say that you were perceived as a controversial person in APC’s politics in the South-West?
Anybody who is principled would be controversial because a lot of people get scared if you are too principled. They say you are unmanageable; they say you cannot be controlled; they say you always stick to your gun. I am one person who will never tell lies, I will never pretend to be what I am not, I will never deceive people, I will never cut corners, and that should be the ideal qualities of every patriotic politician. But in the situation that we are in Nigeria, those could become weaknesses. So, I tell people that I have weaknesses, and the weakness is that I am too principled. I believe in getting things done properly, and I don’t allow anybody to cut corners. And I don’t compromise on issues of righteousness.
Then, what were the political intrigues that played out in Oyo State then, and how are they playing out now as we approach another election season?
Intrigues are many, but what is important is for us to now emphasise and re-emphasise and prioritise the fact that all the divergent forces within the party before the 2019 elections have now come together. All those who went to PDP, or to help PDP, come into power but are now back with us in APC. So, I think, for now, we are on the right course, and we are praying that with the right candidate because that is very important. The people of Oyo State now have a benchmark. There is a governor in place for PDP. Anybody that APC would select or elect to be flag bearer must be someone who has what the current PDP governor doesn’t have. Other than that, we will just be wasting our time.
Are you interested in the governorship position?
By the grace of God, all things being equal, I am contesting in 2023. I am qualified for it, and I am also aspiring, but I want to leave everything to God. If God has something better for me, if it is the governorship, I am more than prepared. Perhaps the best candidate that the party can bring up to hold its ticket against the incumbent governor.
There is quite a worrisome development ongoing in the political space, which is the increasing defection by governors, lawmakers and very recently, Femi -Fani Kayode, to the ruling APC, purported to be a failed party. What do you say to this?
If it is a failed party, people will not be rushing into APC. I can say this without fear of being controverted. A lot of people now judge the government only on the basis of the challenges of the insecurity that we have. They forget that governance is an all-inclusive thing. I’m not saying that security is not fundamental, but the achievements of this government in terms of infrastructural development are more than all that has happened to Nigerians since the Fourth Republic, that is from 1999 to 2015. The achievements of this government in the areas of infrastructure, foods, bridges, railway, and even aviation and water resources, as well as employment opportunities, and all of that. In the economic realm, the government has done very well. So, again in the area of security, if you know what the security forces are doing, the achievements now, it will be marvelling. The only thing is that the problem of insecurity has been allowed to fester so much for the past 20 years, or more. For instance, if you take the Boko Haram insurgency, you will agree with me that the Boko Haram are now handing over their guns. A lot of them are begging to be re-admitted into society, a lot of them are downing their arms and ammunition because of the heat that our security forces are putting on them. A lot of them are also being killed in their scores.
In the area of the North-West, insecurity did not start with kidnapping or banditry, it started with cattle rustling over the last 20 years or more. It is these cattle rustlers who suddenly discovered that, instead of rustling 100 cows, for instance, it pays you to get one or two people kidnapped and to ask for ransom because human life is so precious and people would desperately want to pay ransom in order to save souls. You would also recall that criminals don’t give notice, such that you cannot say that the government ought to have known that they were coming. Nigeria is such an expansive area of land with porous borders of more than 3,000 kilometres from Lagos to Sokoto, to Maiduguri down to Calabar. It is not possible for all of these to be fenced, so people come in from external and within Nigeria, and you have forests all over the place. But again, we must commend the security forces. If you read the news every now and then, you will know that scores of them are being eliminated and confronted. Now, they are migrating from one section of the country to another to escape the pressure of our security forces.
The insecurity challenge is a question of time. It is often said that tough times don’t last, tough people, do. I want to assure you. Recall that when the armed robbery started years ago, it seemed like it will never end, but today it has gone down considerably. By the grace of God, we will see that within the shortest possible time, there would be an end to banditry, terrorism, kidnapping, and all kinds of insurgency.
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The president appears quiet about the recent outburst by Miyetti Allah that it will not obey the anti-open grazing laws passed by some states. How do you react to this?
The President is not the only one in government. There are layers and layers of government. The issue of banning; is about the Land Use Decree. The Land Use Decree entrusts lands, ownership of lands, as well as a legal possession of the land on the state government. They are empowered by law to make necessary laws, good governance for their various states. Besides that, people have farms. There’s no land that does not have ownership in this country. If I have a farm, I have grown crops and whatever, is it fair for somebody to just come in and use his cattle to graze on my land, on my farm? It’s about justice, equity, a good conscience, morality. Except you are saying that I don’t have a right to farm on my land, but if you are not saying that I have a right for my land to be protected by the law, and that is exactly what state governors are doing. Besides, during the ancient times when we were travelling, we went by walking, later it graduated to horses. Today, it has evolved into vehicles and aeroplanes. Why must cattle grazing over the last 1,000 years remain the same mode? The Netherlands produces the largest milk in the world. You would never see one cattle on the road in the Netherlands or in the northern countries where the milk business is the highest. They have advanced, so we cannot continue with the same thing over and over the decades of centuries and expect progress. It is high time that the government did something about it.
But the same cattle herders under the Miyetti Allah group are saying ranching is expensive, and that it is almost impossible to get the size of land from states for ranching?
I am aware that there are a lot of governors in the North, ranchers are from the North. Are they saying that even in the North where they belong, their state governors will not give them land? I don’t think so. It is better for them to the ranch where they have land, and then perhaps start some kind of mechanised farming, rearing and selling killed cows in containerised and air conditioning trucks to where they will be selling, because it is a question of your right stops where my right begins. We should respect everybody’s right to their property because they are legal possessions. I don’t believe that acquiring land is a difficult thing.
Except for few Northern governors who are badly affected by banditry, insurgency, the others appear to be too carefree?
I don’t think all of them are keeping mute. I am aware that the Zamfara State governor has been talking every now and then. I’m also aware that Governor El-Rufai of Kaduna has also been talking ever now and then. The problem is perhaps we do not have enough security officials to man all the school locations across areas that are prone to the kidnapping of schoolchildren. And you know very well that even military bases are now being attacked. It’s very sad and very shameful, and perhaps that might be a result of the poor training of our military personnel. How can a whole military base be attacked by a whole unequipped and ill-trained marauder? It’s very shameful, so, I think we should get our military trainers to go back to the drawing board and re-strategise and retrain their personnel so that this kind of thing does not come up again. I also want to believe that technology can be brought really to contain insecurity and marauding of schools.
I do know there are challenges of funding, but we must start from somewhere, and for me, security forces should be ready to take risks in the interest of protecting the ordinary Nigerian. I’m aware that air force planes are being deployed to contain threats, but the best of them now are not yet good enough for the protection of the citizens of this country.
In 2023, what would be your lot if the APC should zone the presidency slot to the south? And which of the zones in the south do you think should present the president?
Well, I believe that Let’s restructure, renegotiate, reconfigure, decentralize, whatever nomenclature we have is currently not working.
Also remember that after the Obasanjo Presidency, from the South-West, it went to the North – Yar’Adua. From Yar’Adua, it went to the South/South, then it came to North again, and now it should go back to Yoruba land. It’s so logical. But, of course, we certainly will need the support of the North, because talking in terms of statistics of voters, the North is way ahead of other parts of the country in terms of votes. And I want to make reference to our experience over the last 20 years. I recall that in 2011, when President Buhari contested under CPC, from the North, he got 12 million votes and from the entire south, he got less than 300,000 votes. In 2015, again he got 12 million votes in the North, 3 million in the whole of the South and in 2019, he again got 12 million votes, plus from the North, and less than 4 million voters from the entire South. So, if you look at those statistics, you will know that the votes are more in the North than in the South. But having said that, I also appreciate that the North also knows that the South-West, in particular, has made sacrifices because, without the support of the South-West, 2015 could not have been. And of course, in 2019 too, the South-West made sacrifices, and it’s been very wonderful. Very amazing contributions by the South-West, not in terms of contribution alone, but also in terms of the South-West media. I want to believe that in recognition of these sacrifices, the North would be magnanimous enough to support the South-West candidate.
Can you tell us about the 5G Network that was recently approved by the Federal Government, though it began during your time as a minister? And could there be a basis for comparing your tenure and that of Ali Pantami?
Ali Pantami didn’t introduce the 5G. Let me say this, 5G is a new development in the area of technology. During my time, the idea of 5G was just being promoted, and at the time, even America opposed it. Generally, it is not in my place to compare my tenure with that of Pantami. Recall that Pantami used to be under me, I supervised him, I was his minister, and I say it with all humility that I was his boss at that time. So, whatever achievements I had, he also contributed because there are six agencies under me, now that he is there, he is merely carrying on the things we did together at that time, and it will be unfair to expect me to start comparing.
Are you not worried about the clamour for the Yoruba Nation outside Nigeria and IPOB’s secessionist agitations going on in the South-East?
It is against one Nigeria. To me, it is a very senseless war that a lot of these people are fighting. They fight against one Nigeria. Look, I am a Yoruba man, I know the Yoruba people are some of the most enterprising people. If you are an entrepreneur, you perhaps have a factory or render some service. Do you look for a bigger market or a smaller market? The ordinary driver/transporter in Lagos who now can transport passengers from Lagos to Abuja, Kano and more would lose his happiness if suddenly he loses that bigger market, which is the Nigeria market. Anybody who is enterprising, who has a business, an entrepreneur would necessarily prefer a bigger market. Look at what is happening in the South-East. With the sit-at-home instructions, more than N10 billion is lost every day. If you are purportedly fighting to liberate your people and now, they must go through all these sacrifices, which is unnecessary; I don’t think it makes sense. There’s no perfect situation in the world, and Nigeria cannot be an exception. We have a National Assembly. Whatever feelings or grievances anybody has, if you take to the executive and the executive does not listen, go to the National Assembly where you too have representatives.
There’s no how the National Assembly will take up an issue and the government will not listen. Looking for the breakup of this country doesn’t help. As an individual, I have half of my family in Zaria, who have been there for more than 50 years. So, to expect that they suddenly become no citizens of Nigeria, and then they must move to my place, where would we keep them? What jobs will they be doing? We have mechanics and all sorts of tradesmen all over this country. This war that some people are clamouring for is a war that would send them packing from these various places back home, so you will only be creating more crises and the possibility of more deaths. For me, look at Europe; Europe consists of 16 countries, but they have discovered that they need each other. They need a bigger market, bigger access, and so on. So, what they have done is to create a European Union, which is the best in the circumstances. We are already a big nation, and we are more than Europe in terms of figures.
We are blessed; all that is required of us is to form a political process so that there will be greater equity so that there will be greater participation so that people will be given a sense of belonging if they feel yet that they don’t have it, no agitations. We must reform our political process. We cannot say that the situation we have now is not better than 20 to 30 years ago. Things are improving, and we should keep reforming our system
Then how do you also situate the long clamour for restructuring, fiscal federalism and the Southern governors’ insistence that power must return to the South in 2023?
Our insistence is not a by-force thing. Like I have given you certain statistics, we are talking about the meritorious election – one man, one vote. Everybody should try and persuade the larger percentage of our people to vote for their candidates. So, talking about restructuring, there’s no problem, there’s no problem about changing our systems. We have a National Assembly that is empowered by law to continue to engage in reform as may be negotiated within the National Assembly. You cannot uproot the National Assembly and expect stability. We voted for those that are there, we should continue to make agitations. And even now, a lot of emotions are coming, a lot of constitutional reforms are coming. A lot of people expect Mr President to unilaterally restructure Nigeria. He does not have the power to do so. It is only the National Assembly in association with the state assemblies that can bring about restructuring. So, I don’t care about what anybody wants to restructure. Once you can convince the National Assembly to do the needful, I am okay with it.
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Tell us about your brother, Sunday Igboho and his face-off with the Federal Government.
I don’t really know if he’s fighting with the Federal Government. I’m a Yoruba man, he’s a Yoruba man. He’s my junior brother, he’s a person I know very well. We worked together under the Ladoja governorship. I know him very well, and his fight initially was against kidnapping, killings, and I supported him throughout. But on his issue on the supposed Yoruba Nation, I don’t think it’s in the best interest. I am yet to be convinced, nobody has convinced me, and if I must support a project, I must be convinced. I am too old in the game to be a follow-follow person. Nobody has advanced enough reasons to create a supposed Yoruba Nation when we are in a bigger and better enclave as one Nigeria.
Why did the APC governors gang up against Oshiomhole and removed him? Was it because… (Cuts in)
I am not aware that anybody ganged up against him. All I know was that Oshiomhole was very arrogant. And to my knowledge, he was also very corrupt. Under his auspices, we lost about five states as APC. He became unfit to continue to represent APC as chairman of our party.
Let us talk about the VAT controversy between the Federal Government and some states. In your view, who has the constitutional right to collect VAT?
The matter is still in court as far as I know it, and the court will be in the best position to decide who controls VAT. I mean, there have been arguments back and forth about it, and I would rather wait for the decision of the court on the matter.
