Tinubu knows Nigerians are suffering, but addressing issues with tough decisions- Kalu
The Senator representing Abia North in the National Assembly under the platform of the All Progressives Congress (APC), Orji Uzor Kalu, says he has no plan to contest the 2027 presidential election but might consider it if President Bola Tinubu turns down the offer. The two-time governor of Abia State and ranking member of the Senate, who was a guest on Channels TV Politics Today, also talked about the state of the economy, politics, and other sundry issues in this interview monitored by David Lawani
Do you have the ambition to become President in 2027?
Well, it is so nice to ask me a question that should not have come up because I don’t know where you got your rumour from. First and foremost, I am qualified to be a President, and I am competent. But, in a constitutional democracy, a party with a President running for the first time does not need to be in America or anywhere. We have a candidate in our political party except he is not running.
If he doesn’t want to run, would you run?
Sure, if the party allows me to fly the party’s flag, why not? It is a privilege, and it is not something that I would like. The party gives it an opportunity, and the Nigerian people support it. It is not about me. My interest in 2027 is to come back and be a lawmaker. Sit in the Senate and work in the Senate. If you run, Mr Peter Obi from your region in the South East will be in the race because of his presence in 2023.
Won’t that affect your chances?
I don’t think so because this is about a political party. He is not at my party. I am not at his party. I know things have not been the way they should be. The economy has not been so friendly. This economic problem is going on almost everywhere in the world. It is just that we have not had an economy. We could say this is the financial system from 1960 till today. No system of economy. If we had an economy like Canada and America, we would say this is where we will follow. The pressure of COVID-19 has not gone. Mind you, I am not a politician but an entrepreneur. You know, I am the highest employer in the media alone. In Nigeria, I have over 2,000 employees. I have another 13,000 workers. I am not a politician. I am an entrepreneur.
How do you want to downplay the fact that you are a sitting Senator representing Abia North?
I am a sitting Senator with an entrepreneurial face. You don’t count me as a politician. I keep time. All the time I have appeared for interviews here, I used to come here before you. Mind you, I have businesses in most African countries, like Sierra Leone, Gambia, Guinea Conakry, and South Africa. So, the pressure of COVID-19 is going to take a toll like we have in Canada and the US, and this recess will just come because the pressure is there. But because they are a developed economy, people are not sitting down to see it. There are a lot of cushions and palliatives. Our palliative is to go and buy rice and beans. However, there are a lot of palliative measures the other is giving to organized businesses- the SMEs; once you don’t grow them, you cannot have an economy. Because of pressure, that is why things are looking like that. Pressure of the naira to the dollar and pressure of fuel prices. These are things we should have overgrown by now. We should be talking about the physical side of the economy.
Some of you in the Senate have not shown enough consideration for the people. How come you have accepted cars worth millions of naira against the hardship faced by the people?
Some of these claims are just rumours. Let me be honest with you: a lot of things are being said wrongly. I sat there and watched, and most of these things are untrue.
Like getting vehicles?
Yes, of course. It is not true. Some Senators were given upgrades, and those who could afford them bought them.
So, you didn’t get a vehicle?
What will I do with it? There is nothing like an official vehicle. They bought vehicles for the committees, and senators were given committee vehicles.
Did you get a vehicle?
No, that is not the issue. Did my committee get a vehicle? The answer is yes. I chair a committee. The vehicle is for committee work. It is not for me. But anybody on the committee can use this vehicle. So, we are elected people. Many people are elected. They use five to six vehicles, and nobody talks about it. The legislators are doing a lot to ensure committee work is carried out. In our constituencies, they will come to us if somebody is sick. If somebody’s child is not attending school, they will come for school fees. If anything happens to any constituent, they will come to you. So, the way they look down on legislators are things I don’t believe.
Some of these vehicles amount to N100m units. Do you agree?
All I know is that we don’t get vehicles. No lawmaker is an owner of any vehicle. The vehicles are committee vehicles. None of the committee members will tell you that these vehicles do not belong to the committees.
How does the political class live large at the expense of the people? When the average person in society cannot feed? You are not reflecting the average person that you are representing. Do you feel so?
It depends because I represent an average person in my constituency as a Senator. I can never fail in my duty, and I am sure most Senators are doing their best in their constituencies. I can never fail in the Abia North constituency.
At what expense are you getting so much?
I’m getting what from where? If you had told me, I would have brought my statement of account from the Senate.
How much do you earn as a salary?
I earn N14m for everything in a month, including my salary, overhead, and workers. Let me be honest with you. Do you know this morning that I have to buy fuel, travel, and maintain my constituency office, and it is not even enough?
As a two-term governor, don’t you think the governance cost is too much?
When I was governor, I called for six years in one term. Remember, former President Obasanjo said I was after him. That was part of the beginning of our quarrel because of the cost of managing the economy. When you bring in a governor or President, their eyes are on the election because they are not even thinking about the economy. Every politician is looking for re-election, and the only way to solve this problem is to do six years in one term.
Do you think that will help to boost performance?
It will go a long way because most people think they need to make money for re-election. I don’t think most politicians are always looking forward to this election.
Are you proud of what your party is delivering to Nigerians today?
Yes and no. My party is very unlucky. My party has done very well.
Is it under Tinubu or Buhari?
Let me be honest with you. God creates every leader for a purpose. Every leader has a purpose for which God created him. God doesn’t create leaders just for the sake of it.
Do you agree that Buhari destroyed our economy?
I am not going to answer that. He has gone because discussing him here is not the right thing to do. Let us look at the future.
But how do we learn when we don’t know the issues?
It is not here we will learn.
If the economy under Buhari was a disaster, should we toil with that line?
That is where the difficulty comes in. The government is not continuing from where Buhari stopped. They are trying to reform the economy, to bring it back to where it is supposed to be. But it is bringing hardship that the people are not happy about. The President knows that Nigerians are hungry. The President is a street person, and he knows. The President sometimes uses his car to go around at night. Yes, in Abuja here.
Are you aware that he moves around the city?
Yes, sure. The President goes around the city.
But he didn’t do it when there was kidnapping?
The President goes around with one or two cars to see what is happening. He is not a President locked up in a room. He is not a President who doesn’t know what is happening; he knows. This President is very courageous. I might not be able to take up most of the things he is doing.
Have you reconciled with him? You know your friendship had some differences some time ago. There are those saying you betrayed him in the election in the National Assembly. Do you?
No, I have never quarrelled with the President. The President asked me not to run for the Senate President, and I didn’t run. I obeyed that.
But you supported Yari? Did you regret that?
We have gone past that. I voted for Yari, and that was my vote.
Is that the reason some of you wanted Akpabio out?
Nobody wants Akpabio out.
But there are speculations on the floor that he wants to be impeached.
The Senate is one Senate. Any day the Senate finds a reason to remove Godswill Akpabio, they will come together as one Senate and do it. But there is no reason as of today. If they have a reason, they will remove him. Nobody plans to remove him. There is nothing like that. I don’t know where you are getting your information.
Are you one of those Senators who gave Akpabio a vote of confidence to continue in office?
The Senate gave him a vote of confidence—everybody in the Senate did—because we needed one Senate to go through this difficult period. Nigeria is going through difficult moments, and we need to support both the executive and the legislature. We cannot start fighting.
Some believe that you and your colleagues are rubber stamps and that you are not really playing your role in checking the executive. Do you agree?
Do you see me as a rubber stamp? You know me. Do I speak my mind? The Senate is the Senate, and I belong to it. The Senate is not a rubber stamp.
One hundred nine of you represent your constituency. What have you done differently to put the executives and their toes under fire?
Nigerians have always misunderstood our jobs. Our job is to make laws, and when we do, we give them to the executive. The executive will implement them. That is where our jobs end. The Senate will go for oversight, and we expect our colleagues to ask: Have they gone for oversight? Those who do oversight must do thorough oversights.
You have accepted that the economy is in trouble, do you?
Yes, sure, and absolutely.
Under your party, if you say the Senate is not a rubber stamp, and you are playing your role as an oversight role, how come our economy has come this bad? Almost all the indexes in the economy have gone negative. How much pressure are you putting on the executive that our economy is in shambles?
Let me be honest with you: The Senate is putting a lot of pressure on the executive. It is not an issue of the executive, legislature, or judiciary but a worldwide issue. There is a lot of hunger in South Africa. The record is that the economy is depleting worldwide. I have businesses everywhere. It is bad in Nigeria because we do not have economic processes. We haven’t had an economy since 1960, almost 70 years ago.
What do you mean we don’t have an economy?
There is no organized economy here. Because we have no light, we have nothing. Our stock exchange is just building up. The institutions that drive the economy are fragile—all the institutions—and this is what President Bola Tinubu is trying to build. Ensure these institutions are built because if you continue with this handout, you will not go anywhere. Somebody is going to make decisions.
Is the President right for these decisions?
He is making tough decisions for the future. I am not defending him because I can always speak my mind. The question is whether the Nigerian people are hungry. I have businesses across the border, and I can tell you it is the same story everywhere. But our looks were worse because we didn’t make decisions at all.
Do you think painting a global picture with the peculiar challenges of Nigeria is the best?
What I am saying is that, as you are trying to say in a different language, people in government ought to maintain austerity measures. I believe they should. There should be more sewing on our coasts according to our sizes. Most things that people in government do should be scaled down. Nigeria should also scale down its gifts to other countries.
Like having 49 ministers?
Well, you are right. The Constitution says you should have 35. We should scale down the parastatals. If I were President Tinubu, most parastatals would return to the ministries.
But why are you and your colleagues creating more parastatals?
Did you see us appointing anybody or creating anyone? I concur with Steve Orosanye’s report that we don’t need this much. I have told President Tinubu that we do not need this much. But the man is under fire because he is working day and night.
Are you still very close?
Yes. We never had differences. I don’t know where you are getting this fake news. Only two days before I travelled, he was at my house. What shows friendship?
Are you still a businessman?
Yes, I am building new factories and creating new opportunities in my business for people to work and make money.
You are not recognised as one, and that is why I said you are a politician. But you don’t seem to agree
Forbes (Magazine) rated me. Don’t forget that when they rated me, they started from 2007 to 2019, and immediately after that, I was elected into the National Assembly. They will not rate me again because I was out of business. I am not a politician. I worked for the foundation and everybody. I advise the business. I cannot leave such a large business without advising them.
Do you think cutting down on what you earn with your colleagues will show good faith in the country?
Well, we have done that time without numbers. The Senate President has cut most of the things we get, and we said it was good. The Senate President has done a lot to cut most of these things. We are rocking in my constituency. It is not perfect, but we are rocking there. My constituency is one of the best in Nigeria today. It is true.